Well enough people are not used to it yet, today I was talking to a coach to see about getting some help with three turns. I really need to do something about going from forwards to backwards and back to forwards.
Anyway, in their policies they have a dress code, in as much as they want to keep a proper society type “Image” I will have to start wearing pants If I want to use their services.
Meanwhile three of the ladies being coached today wore leggings, it’s annoying that they have such a choice in clothing and styles they get to wear, meanwhile most men are stuck with black pants and white shirts, even ties at times. Even what I wore today was not technically acceptable since what I wore was leggings and not pants or trousers.
And as a matter of fact there is a lady there who gets coached while wearing pants and will never compete because of the rule saying she must wear a skirt. She has been skating for a while, and most assuredly is good enough to test and enter competitions yet cannot because of her refusal to wear a skirt.
Now I could care less for those of you who think otherwise on the ability of people being able to wear what they want to wear. I’m not saying that men should be going around wearing skirts and dresses just because women wear pants for just about anything they choose. And in fact is rather silly in this day and age that the USFSA makes such a requirement for women to have bare legs and a skirt for modesty. There’s more modesty in a pair of pants then in what they call skirts nowadays. Women used to wear long ful skirts as to hide there legs, since seeing such a part of a female was “taboo” Sonja Henie changed all that. Maybe someone will step up and compete wearing trousers one day, and we can get rid of this silly requirement.
And while a lady can express femininity with showing her legs, bare arms, and chest. Men are not allowed to show their legs, arms, or chest, even what makes men men must be hidden. Course some will argue that a man in a pair of crisp black pants and ruffly white shirt is masculine. But I dare ask, should clothing really depict that? Or should one be freer in the forms of expression and choice? I hardly see a man going outside the norm unless it’s in pairs, and even then I see more black pants and white shirts then I do in matching type outfits.
What I am saying is why can’t there be more leeway in what one can wear? I’m all for keeping the nudity part in, after all, we do still need modesty, (my personal opinion) Course if you took that part out you really could get some attention then. Now I know that figure skating is about artistic impression, in fact if you don’t make enough of an impression your score will go down. I just find it silly and annoying that clothing is so restricted, even Scott Hamilton was fed up with the type of outfits people were wearing. Realistically, unless your at a competition, and your doing a routine to show your artistic impression of something, does it really matter what you are wearing? Shouldn’t it be more about completing your elements, hitting your marks, and not falling down? If it was about the clothing, wouldn’t there be a separate set of marks for it, or more then a .1 deduction if they don’t think it appropriate?
Or I could be wrong on the whole thing, after all, it’s just my views and opinions.
I’m glad your more open to it, it took me over a month to convince people that underneath the clothing I’m still a guy, and pretty decent one at that. And most obviously not your ordinary typical male chauvinistic pig. Especially not like the ones who come on hockey skates that skate as fast as they can and then do a hockey stop into the wall to see how high they can make snow. Men who do figure skating is definitely a rarity, and I’m definitely more rare then most.
Who says you have to wear boobs to wear a skirt? Do you see women flattening their chest and sticking a sock down the front when they wear pants? How about Scottish men? Do they wear boobs with their skirt? No, they don’t.
Putting on a fire suit does not automatically make one a fireman, neither if you put on a policemen’s uniform make you a policeman. Clothing is something that covers ones skin, it does not change who you are on the inside. Just because a fireman is not in uniform does not stop him from being a fireman.
What’s the big deal about a skirt anyways? Men and women both used to wear tunics, there was no such thing as pants in the old days. many men in other countries wear sarongs as there much cooler to wear then pants. Women enjoy the freedom nowadays to wear a skirt or pants, unless there skating of course, then they must present themselves as tarts for the dogs to drool over.
And no, I don’t wear ladies figure skates, I wear mens, and they are black, of course women used to wear black skates too a long time ago, there was no such thing as color to tell which skates belonged to what gender. Many people have told me that black does not go will with suntan tights however. So more often now I wear black tights, albite a bit off I think if I wear a lighter colored outfit. Yet ladies can wear black or white skates, or even nude covers.
You can pray for me, pray that there are more tolerant people out there then your own bigoted views. I skate with a great group of people, they accept me for who I am, and not the clothing I am wearing.
Kilt/skirt what’s the difference? It’s still a garment that doesn’t separate the legs. You only associate it that way since male Scotts have been wearing kilts for eons, probably before even the skirt was named a skirt. There’s always seems to be one name for a female piece of clothing, and one for the male version, even if they look identical. Pants are the only thing I know of that retain the same name no matter what gender there made for, or which gender is wearing them.
Overalls, vs jumpsuit, dress shirt vs blouse, skirt vs kilt, panties vs briefs, etc etc
You associate gender to clothing, clothing has nothing to do with ones gender, I still look like a guy, talk like a guy, and still use my male name wether I’m in pants or a skirt. I’m not hiding anything.
Who says I’m gay? Obviously all the women wearing pants must be lesbians with this correlation, do you want me to call women lesbians for wearing pants? Since when does ones clothing dictate ones sexual orientation? Over 75% of the men who crossdress (of which I am not a crossdresser, unless you want to call women wearing pants crossdressers also) are heterosexual. Only about 1% of gay men crossdress (the other 14% are bisexual)
Bigot? Yes, I’m a bigot, I’m a bigot about people who are unaccepting of others and would rather inflict their own views and opinions onto them.
Yeah, I answered my own question, I was seeing what kind of people were in this group, like asking how’s the weather.
Your entitled to your opinion, I’m fine with that.
Robe/dress what’s the difference? If you hade a dress that buttoned from top to bottom, could it not be considered a robe if left unbuttoned?
If a man gets out of the shower and puts a robe on, is it still a robe? If a women gets out of the shower and puts a robe on, does it turn into a dress?
I think your forgetting the fact that pants are a modern invention, when this book your quoting from was written, there was no such thing as pants. Men and women essentially wore the same type of clothing. Go ahead, call the same garment two different names if that makes you happy, it’s still the same thing!
I haven’t been to Los Angeles, but from what I hear, it’s not uncommon to see men in skirts all the time over there. You discriminate against the clothing one is wearing, same as if you were judging them by their skin color. Skin color, clothing, fat, skinny, hair color, physical traits are just a shell for holding what someone is on the inside. That is what makes someone a person, none of this other stuff should matter, yet you use it to inflict your bigoted views. Society is changing, if I were you, I’d hide.
Oh, it may look like I only have one ore, but the other one is in storage, why row when you have a sail and a strong wind?
What a silly reply, I really don’t believe most of what you say, I’m glad you think it’s a joke, I don’t, I’m fighting for freedom and the end of oppression. Talking to you about this is like poring water into a colander, a waste of time and effort.
Go ahead and sleep, I’ll still be burning the midnight oil for what I believe in, I am me, not what others think I should be.
Oh what a tangled web I have woven!
I will agree that I did tell a lie to start the post, and I was seeing what peoples thoughts would be. Since I didn’t use another users name to start the conversation, I thought it would be better to come at it in a third persons point of view. Saying that I was a guy wearing a skirt off the bat most likely would have skewed the results, and we’d still be where we are now. I also believe in my post on the 4th with started all this, I said it was my views and opinions, and on my post on the 5th stating that KB was entitled to their opinion, and I was fine with that.
I agree with you thinking that I was looking for replies based on my post, I was asking opinions, and I made the mistake of not being forward about it, or fixing it afterwards. I’ve never been good at deceit, and this most obviously points out this fact. Quite honestly, I am very annoyed at myself for this mistake, I am sorry for what has transpired since my reply to Kari on the 4th. Thank you Nyssa for straightening me out in that fact. I’m sorry to you too KB, I do understand what your thoughts are, I’ve been down that road already, I’m sorry for being bullish in trying to make my point. As for the others who have posted, please accept my apologies, I will do my best to just by myself, and not lie.
Yes, it took me a while to express to people who I was, three weeks I think I said, since I didn’t give the background or details to what transpired, it sort of puts it out of context.
I had been sating at the rink a number of times, either in a skirt or leggings and leotard (which was invented by a man for men to wear by the way) One of the skating moms came out and skated with me and popped the question as to why I would wear such clothing. I won’t bother explaining what I said, we’ve already been down this road. When I was done talking to her I felt that she did not fully understand what I was saying, so I wrote a three page letter to her describing my thoughts, how I looked at, my views and opinions and such. She gave them back and gave me some of her thoughts. A week later I asked how her daughter did at competitions, she asked as to why I wanted to know. As pretty much of not being part of their group or socializing with them. I told her I was just curious as I know a number of people who went, and I know how they finished (three people received gold medals, which I was glad as they’ve worked so hard) This in turn brought up the whole skirt issue again, and why a man would wear such tight fitting clothing. Of which I now found out that she did not read any of the letters I had given her, so I sat and talked to her for at least half an hour going through it all. After this, she gave me the address of her church and what time they would be there. Since I wanted to understand her viewpoint, I went to her church. After services, she said she had to look me straight in the eye for what she was about to say. She said she was sorry for judging me based on the clothing I was wearing and that she was a bigot for doing so. To say the least I was floored, I did not expect this kind of reply from her.
Also at this rink there is a lady who has been skating for a number of years and is also taking private lessons to further her skills. And while I think she is pretty good, you will never see this lady at any tests. Nor will you see her competing at any competitions. Why you may ask? For the simple reason that for her to do any of this, she must abide by the rules of being forced to wear a skirt.
She claims the simple reason of modesty, and has tried various outfits to comply, but basically is barred from going further in the sport for the simple reason of not having the ability to wear trousers. Something which women have had the ability to do outside of skating and other sports for a great number of years. I’ve been told that the skirt is supposed to be for modesty, tell me what would be more modest then for this lady to wear something she is comfortable and feels more dignified in? How many other skaters out there don’t move onward due to this sexist rule?
Given the requirements of modesty, why do we continue to see pictures of a ladies behind, underwear, or views down the front of their dress? In fact I recall a picture once that you could see the waistband of the tights and their bellybutton. Is this modesty? If you want to keep the skirt why not go back to the long ankle length ones? If not, they why can’t skating modernize and let the athletes have the ability to express themselves in a more modern flair? I won’t argue with you an artistic impression, after all, most other sports that women are in is more about their ability, not how sexy they look. Figure skating is one of the few sports I know that ones attire is enforced and graded on, ones skating should be judged on their moves, and not their clothing.
You must understand that when I think that someone doesn’t understand, that I do my best to explain it in such a manner as to have it make sense. In this I tend to explain the same thing multiple times from different directions. Of course it may end up looking like harassment and that I’m forcing my opinion down ones throat by the time I’m done. I’m sorry if it’s come across this way, it is just my nature in trying to come to an understanding.
You must also understand that I place no gender on clothing, clothing is a piece of material that covers ones skin. A long time ago a women dared to wear pants, she faced the same ridicule I face now. And for that, women now enjoy the freedom of wearing everything from jeans to pantsuits. It’s so interesting that the ladies get such things as boycut shorts, yet men don’t have girlcut shorts. Women enjoy many of the mens styles and clothing out there, yet if a man tries to express the same interest, he gets shot down. Yes, maybe I’m one of the few men out there that think it’s silly that men don’t have more choices in what we wear. Go ahead, I dare you to look in a clothing catalog and tell me how many more pages of ladies wear there is compared to menswear. Since when do I have to be restricted to what is offered to men? Don’t I not have a choice in what I want to wear? Maybe a designer one day will come out with a manly skirt, what’s going to happen then? Many men already enjoy having long hair and earrings, it’s no big deal anymore.
Maybe I should have gone the route my mom told me to go to avoid all this, and that would be to pretend that I was female buy using a wig, makeup and fake “boobs” And hiding that I was a man. I do not feel this way about what I wear, I am a guy, if you want to say that guys should only wear guys clothing, that’s fine. Girls don’t become guys for wearing t-shirts and pants, I’m working to make that true for many others out there like me who like the choices clothing, want to stay a guy, but don’t want to be mislabeled
No, I do not claim to be an expert in women’s clothing, it’s much more complex then what us men get to wear. After all, many items from the mens wardrobe have disappeared, such as leggings, dresses, heels, and wigs to name a few. But I was tying to make a simple point in how a piece of clothing changes meaning by the label it is given.
I try not belittle people either, I let ones actions speak for them, not there clothing, hair color, skin color, if their fat or skinny, if they have long legs, short legs, missing an arm or a leg, stutter, crossed eyes or what not. I DON’T CARE! You know how many ladies I’ve talked to on-line that were afraid I wouldn’t talk to them anymore after they sent me there picture and they were overweight? I got to know these people for who they were, their views, and opinions, physical traits did not matter not matter to me! Expressing my opinion can be taken as belittling however, how else is my differing opinion going to be taken from someone else’s? And in fact you could even call me a bigot for it too because I’m sure I fit into that also!
Three of the moms skate with me at times when I’m out there, and I talk to numerous others, both men and women, they talk to me just as they would any other human being. They have the wisdom and attitude to look past the outside and not make it a reason to avoid talking to someone.
I will not argue with you on the point of the robe, as I’m sure it carries a religious context for some, rather then a bathrobe or dressing gown. However, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a anyone in church wearing a robe.
Yes, opinion seeking I was, drama was just a side effect, after all, did anyone think such a taboo topic to some would not stir up all these replies? Why else did you think I tried to distance myself from it? All this is my fault for replying to a message in first person point of view rather then a third person if I had wanted to keep up the deceit. I should have either kept it in a third persons point of view or started a new thread, that was my mistake, and I accept that, I am human. If you can forgive, please accept my apologies, if not, I’m sorry, I hope others do not do the same to you as I have done. I have learned from this, and will do my best not to repeat it.
For future reference, I will no longer call what I am wearing a skating dress, rather it is a leotard with an attached kilt.